A Tale of Two Experiments

Before I begin, two small announcements:

First: I am now on bluesky! Instead of having a separate link in the top menu for each social media account, I’ve changed the format so now there are social media buttons in the right-hand sidebar, right under the “Follow” button. Currently, they cover tumblr, twitter, and bluesky, but there may be more in future.

Second, I’ve put a bit more technical advice on my “Open Source Grant Proposal” post, so people interested in proposing similar research can have some ideas about how best to pitch it.

Now, on to the post:


Gravitational wave telescopes are possibly the most exciting research program in physics right now. Big, expensive machines with more on the way in the coming decades, gravitational wave telescopes need both precise theoretical predictions and high-quality data analysis. For some, gravitational wave telescopes have the potential to reveal genuinely new physics, to probe deviations from general relativity that might be related to phenomena like dark matter, though so far no such deviations have been conclusively observed. In the meantime, they’re teaching us new consequences of known physics. For example, the unusual population of black holes observed by LIGO has motivated those who model star clusters to consider processes in which the motion of three stars or black holes is related to each other, discovering that these processes are more important than expected.

Particle colliders are probably still exciting to the general public, but for many there is a growing sense of fatigue and disillusionment. Current machines like the LHC are big and expensive, and proposed future colliders would be even costlier and take decades to come online, in addition to requiring a huge amount of effort from the community in terms of precise theoretical predictions and data analysis. Some argue that colliders still might uncover genuinely new physics, deviations from the standard model that might explain phenomena like dark matter, but as no such deviations have yet been conclusively observed people are increasingly skeptical. In the meantime, most people working on collider physics are focused on learning new consequences of known physics. For example, by comparing observed results with theoretical approximations, people have found that certain high-energy processes usually left out of calculations are actually needed to get a good agreement with the data, showing that these processes are more important than expected.

…ok, you see what I did there, right? Was that fair?

There are a few key differences, with implications to keep in mind:

First, collider physics is significantly more expensive than gravitational wave physics. LIGO took about $300 million to build and spends about $50 million a year. The LHC took about $5 billion to build and costs $1 billion a year to run. That cost still puts both well below several other government expenses that you probably consider frivolous (please don’t start arguing about which ones in the comments!), but it does mean collider physics demands a bit of a stronger argument.

Second, the theoretical motivation to expect new fundamental physics out of LIGO is generally considered much weaker than for colliders. A large part of the theoretical physics community thought that they had a good argument why they should see something new at the LHC. In contrast, most theorists have been skeptical of the kinds of modified gravity theories that have dramatic enough effects that one could measure them with gravitational wave telescopes, with many of these theories having other pathologies or inconsistencies that made people wary.

Third, the general public finds astrophysics cooler than particle physics. Somehow, telling people “pairs of black holes collide more often than we thought because sometimes a third star in the neighborhood nudges them together” gets people much more excited than “pairs of quarks collide more often than we thought because we need to re-sum large logarithms differently”, even though I don’t think there’s a real “principled” difference between them. Neither reveals new laws of nature, both are upgrades to our ability to model how real physical objects behave, neither is useful to know for anybody living on Earth in the present day.

With all this in mind, my advice to gravitational wave physicists is to try, as much as possible, not to lean on stories about dark matter and modified gravity. You might learn something, and it’s worth occasionally mentioning that. But if you don’t, you run a serious risk of disappointing people. And you have such a big PR advantage if you just lean on new consequences of bog standard GR, that those guys really should get the bulk of the news coverage if you want to keep the public on your side.

2 thoughts on “A Tale of Two Experiments

  1. Andrew Oh-Willeke's avatarAndrew Oh-Willeke

    Is it fair to say that LIGO is basically probing any deviations from GR in very strong gravitational field situations?

    Because the hot parts of modified gravity theories that explain dark matter and dark energy phenomena are discernibly different from GR only in the very weak gravitational field regimes.

    With respect to collider physics, on one hand, better understanding and confirming SM physics like tetraquarks, meson molecules, pentaquarks, and hexaquarks isn’t nothing, but if new physics were around the corner at basically one more order of magnitude at a next generation collider, we’d expect more tensions and hints at the LHC than we’ve seen. The realization the SM theoretical prediction for muon g-2 is spot on to the experimentally measured value at ultra-high precision in a global test of the SM (admittedly not in the ultra-high energy regime) and that the muon g-2 anomaly was just a miscalculation of the SM theoretical prediction also really points at a continued new physics desert at a next generation collider.

    In aircraft fleet management, when something goes wrong or not as expected, you stand down the whole fleet and take time to examine what you should be doing differently.

    HEP could use something like that. A discipline wide pause to develop a better idea of what seems most fruitful to look for, rejecting failed motivations like naturalness and the hierarchy problem that haven’t been good at generating fruit hypotheses, and developing a new agenda of different things to look for, given the dead end of supersymmetry and things like the 2HD model (whose latest strict parameter space constraints are detailed at https://arxiv.org/abs/2412.04572).

    On the other hand, even if we are at the point in HEP were the near and medium term future consists primarily of measuring physical constants to greater precision and trying to confirm some of the more obscure predictions of the SM at high energies (e.g. sphalerons and the high energy runnings of the SM coupling constants), this wouldn’t be a waste. Precision measurements of physical constants can rule out a lot of BSM theories.

    One other area where major investments of basic science R&D might make sense is quantum computing. In QCD and proposed quantum gravity theories, computational power to make precision calculations is still a problem. Things like detailed calculations of systems of supernovas and neutron stars are in the same boat. Quantum computing make facilitate progress in those areas. I have no idea what those programs would cost, however.

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    1. 4gravitons's avatar4gravitons Post author

      LIGO doesn’t exclusively probe weak gravity regimes (if it did, amplitudes people doing perturbative calculations wouldn’t be helpful after all 😉 ). Between the inspiral, ringdown, and the propagation of gravitational waves through the intervening space, there are a number of places where adjustments in the weak-field regime can be visible. That said, that doesn’t guarantee that any specific theory can be constrained. I know there are constraints on Horndeski theories (modifications can that add a scalar, which would include some early MOND proposals) but I haven’t heard of constraints on TeVeS (which also adds a vector boson and is to my understanding the current leading MOND candidate). Dark energy is a different story, there are definitely Horndeski theories that have been considered as dark energy candidates. And there are various modifications to gravity motivated by black hole paradoxes, where the strong gravity regime is relevant. In general, the impression I get from this paper and the works it cites in the intro is that much of the interest is in constraining high-energy corrections that only involve the metric itself (no additional fields like MOND would add), which are usually motivated by cosmology.

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